'Keeping families apart' – MRN briefing on family migration policy

The MRN campaign on family migration releases a new briefing paper showing that a higher income threshold for family migration could shut out 50% of the UK working population from bringing a spouse or partner here – with ethnic minorities, women and children particularly hit.
For more up-to-date information on Family Migration visit this list of current blogs.

Since last summer's public consultation we have been waiting for the government to announce its final decision on changes to toughen up family migration policy – during which MRN has been producing regular analysis of the proposals which you can access here, here and here.

But a waiting game provides opportunities - until the announcement is made there is still time to have an impact on the final policy announcement. It is likely that, in the coming weeks, the home secretary will make an announcement about her decision on the reforms to family migration. Over the coming weeks, in the run-up to her announcement, MRN will be stepping up our campaigning through a series of meetings and campaign work on the issue of family migration.

We are taking this work forward by releasing today's briefing paper on the proposed income threshold. This change would prevent up to 50% of the UK working population from bringing foreign family members here as a result of a new, higher income threshold requirement.  If you are interested in organising a public meeting on this issue in your local area, taking part in joint advocacy work or would like to speak out about how you might be affected by this change in policy to the UK, please get in touch.

There are plenty of other issues raised by the family migration proposals, which will also be the focus of MRN activity in coming weeks. Key measures proposed by the government last year included increasing family insecurity by preventing foreign spouses and partners who are in the UK from applying for settlement for an additional 3 years, increasing the bar for language testing at the point of applying for settlement, and introducing tough enforcement measures aimed at tackling 'sham' and forced marriages, including a new pre-entry 'attachment requirement' and wider in-country enforcement activity.

Many of the proposals put forward by the government, if introduced, could interfere with the right to a family life of many people in the UK. In analysis of the proposals last summer the Brussels-based Migration Policy Group (MPG) reviewed the impacts of new family reunion requirements in the small number of EU states (in particular Denmark and the Netherlands) where similar restrictions to those planned in the UK. An MPG policy briefing on new family reunion tests and requirements in relation to migrant integration concluded:

"These policies have a disproportionate impact on the most vulnerable groups: the elderly, young adults, the less educated, ... and to some extent, women. ... Making family life harder or even impossible can negatively impact on the well-being and future integration of the entire family".

A MIPEX analysis of the UK government's plans exposes the fact that key policy proposals, if enacted, would put the UK among the toughest of European countries on family migration.

So there is plenty of evidence, from policy groups to community organisations, which shows that tough changes to family migration rules in the UK could have the effect of alienating both British citizens and recent arrivals in the UK who have family overseas. Now we need to marshall it into arguments which make the case for a better deal for families in the UK.

Please keep an eye on the website for more info and analysis in the coming weeks – we hope you will get involved.

For more up-to-date information on Family Migration visit this list of current blogs.

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I am really scared about what will come out from the new rules about family reunion because a person like me i recently submitted my application for live to remain and it was rejected with no right of appeal. Yet my husband and my children are all British.

Juliet this is a cruel inhumane proposal which follows the new regulations already imposed by T May and the Coalition Govt since they came into office in 2010.
While PM Cameron spouts to the world that Britain is a democracy has Human Rights firmly in place and T May & Cameron state that the UK must comply with the Rule of Law they in fact flout UK Law and the ECHR! The Home Office and UKBA are totally flawed organisations!
Again they clearly demonstare in your case they have no consideration for your childrens rights to their mother and your husbands right to his wife causing yourself and family extreme concern and grief.
PM Cameron and Co call themselves family people when in fact they are complete hypocrits!
I have been hit by these same regulations and been parted from my wife since January 2011.
All our friends and aquantainces keep asking when is my wife coming back to the UK? All I can reply is I do not know! They all say they cannot understand why my wife cannot be in the UK.
They cannot understand how someone like Abu Qatada can flout the rules and why the Home Secretary is so incompetent and cruel. Very sorry for your situation but you are not alone .

Im English living out the country for 32 years and will continue to do so.The UKBA is nothing more than a JOKE!The British government is one of the most corrupt in the world ripping of all the people and getting away with it.When the country falls maybe the people will wake up.The people that should be living in uk are refused as well as being ripped off with the ukba rip off FEES!!!The undesirable people are allowed in and given everythink its a joke!!!!

Ruth I have printed off and read the proposals and had a little time to consider them.
They are outrageous discriminatory and racist. Especially if you are a Brit yet if EU national they don't apply i.e. they only apply to British nationals! Am I right or wrong?
Second in the list of those who would be affected I see no mention of British Pensioners with Non EU Spouses - either male or femail.
British pensioners have the same human rights as all other British citizens don't they?
Their income may be lower but they may have their own unmortgaged property and do not pay rent. So their actual income and outgoing may be lower but their net living expenses quite comfortable. How does this work out?
If Pensioners are discriminated against by being denied the right to a fasmily life and joined and cared for by their NON EU spouses I suggest this is an example of AGEISM which may be of concern to AGE UK!
It is in fact very similiar to the situation of the disabled persons especially as they get older. Any thoughts on this please?

Thanks Geronimo - yes I think these proposals are awful too. Re an income threshold you are right that there is an anomoly because Brits will be affected but EU nationals wanting to bring a spouse here benefit from European Community law and will not be. Also I am not aware that any loophole is planned for pensioners although I agree with the point you make that they could be unfairly disadvantaged.

Hi James Bond.
You are definately not joking.I asked that prize plonker Damian Green to explain what benefits an immigrant recieves.As he said it is only fair,that an immigrant who benefits from the system should help fund it.I wanted to know what benefit an immigrant recieves if his visa is rejected,also as a sponsor of an immigrant has to prove he has the means(either capital or income)to avoid any benefit claims in the foreseeable future,what does a successful applicant recieve in the way of benefit.He never replied after three attempts,and the mail I sent was aknowledged.He talks a load of tosh.Another question which has arisen due to Theresa Mays incompitance is.Why is Abu Qatada who came into the country on a forged passport given three months to appeal,and anyone outside of Europe trying to obtain original doccuments given just four weeks to appeal.As they say when you are in a hole.It is time they stopped digging.Trying to cover one load of tripe with aother.You could end up with a young child allowed to remain in the country,as he/she is a British citizen by birth,but the father cannot enter as he has failed his English test,and the mother is due to be kicked out,because she has failed the Britishness test.Instant orphan,compliments UKBA and the Home Office.

Ruth thank for your reply to my query. When you comment about European Community Law is that the ECHR (47 countries) which the UK is signed up to?
Is the UK part of, and subject to, European Community Law ( 27 countries) and therefore would these new proposals be unlawfull under EU Law?
Then how easy, or difficult, would it be for a UK national to apply for and become a citizen of an EU country ( hold dual nationality) but continue to have residence in the UK?
I'm sure you see the point of my question. Thanks for your help.

Can Damian Green, Theresa May or David Cameron Give an honest straight forward answer as to why none Europeans are being treated this way.
I doubt very much if any of them are capable of delivering any sort of truthful answer more so when they are not even decent enough to answer letters or emails from the very people they are supposed to represent.
The British people are constantly drip fed all this bull@@@t about Immigration control by the hundreds of thousands and then the tens of thousands by an idiot who got his maths wrong.

Damian Green of course tried to fool the British public but got it badly wrong.and it was obvious from the very start of this whole evil cock up his figures were never going to materialize and the ones who would come into the firing line were and had to be all those from none European countries. had the coalition picked on member countries from within the European union then I can only imagine it would have sparked of much bigger problems . so the easiest solution was the outsiders, the none Europeans.
So whenever the mentioned above clowns go before the TV cameras again, they should always remember that there are many millions not just in Britain but around the world who will be laughing at them because they are quick to criticize other nations on certain issues like human rights and discrimination.yet they have introduced and enforced barbaric laws with ever increasing barriers that have denied and made it almost impossible for thousands of British citizens the chance to live a normal family life together and so many of us have no choice but to live apart from our partners until such time when if ever, this diabolical ruling is withdrawn and buried in the scrapheap forever.

monty. I don't think they care what people think because they have a fixed ideas in their heads that we the Brits and our spouses who are affected are in a minority.
The policy is keep down net immigration and the only persons they can hit is NON EU nationals! They want to increase emigration and decrease immigration. Its just numbers game!
Even if we were a majority, such as pensioners with the granny tax, they arrogantly believe they so right that the fact they are hurting ordinary respectable British families doesn't phaze them.
In fact I suggest the opposite because the newest proposal on incomes is designed purely to hit as many people as they can possibly get away with. They are not at all bothered about the hurt and cruelty they inflict on families.
You are quite correct they cannot, will not, touch EU nationals. So they have targeted NON EU because they work on the principle that NON EU nationals have no rights under ECHR.
Of course in doing this they disregard the fact that the spouses of these NON EU nationals are in fact EU nationals i.e British citizens. So their policy is completely discriminatory and racist!
Damien Green appeared on BBC Politics program. He told Andrew Neil that NON EU spouses quote ''only needed a smattering of English to enter the UK''!
However the truth is the opposite. I know a born and bred mature English lady who is educated and efficient enough to be a Doctors practice manager. She took the on line computerised English sample test and was amazed that she failed!
I am a born and bred English Brit and have lived and worked overseas. I have taken the sample computer test and I found it very tricky and doubted if I would have passed the test.
Yet this is a computer test that all would be visa applicants are now required to take and pass.
When the UKBA was asked had they had the computerised English test verified as suitable by established bonified English language education authorities the replied ' no we took the providers assurance that the test was suitable''. As if the provider would say anything else!
Some of us have written to the BBC / Andrew Neil informing him but we have not had any reply.
I was brought up as a Londoner. We learnt pretty quickly to work out when we were being conned. I realised that the computer test could be manipulated and was really just a means to deny applicants getting a visa but earn test fees in the process.
Then we need to consider access to the computer test centres which in some countries are completely inaccessable to applicants - let alone find the repeat fees to take the test.
Yet in contrast the 'not fit for purpose UKBA ' have left the borders unguarded .i.e. LHR where anyone could freely enter the UK plus we know of the illegal immigrants scandal don't we.
When Keith Vaz MP Home Affairs Select Committee tried to get information from the UKBA he publicly stated the UKBA were obstructive to the Committees enquiries!
The UKBA was declared unfit for purpose by John Reid when he was Home Secretary and Woolas was Immigration Minister. Keith Vaz PM Committee reached the same conclusion.
The Coalition Govt with T May Home Sec and D Green have now had two years in office to sort out the UKBA and failed. Instead they have increased the size of the mess the UKBA is in.
The latest T May farce with Abu Qatada fully demonstrates T Mays incompetence & inability.
So this sorrowful saga carries on and we and our spouses are the victims. Will it get better?
Highly unlikely because its too much out of kilter.
Yet it seems Greens policy is allowing in Russian Millionaires so much so that London is now being known as Moscow on Thames! One recently made the press when he was gunned down!
This is Britain today under this Coalition Govt and the Lib Dems are like the three monkies blind deaf and dumb. The Shadow Home Sec has never challenged these policies so Labour is also complicit. Maybe thats why the Bradford electorate defeated Labour by 10,000 votes!

monty. I would like to make further comments as food for thought on our situation.
I like to watch the BBC Parliament channel. One night I was watching a house of Lords debate when the Coalition Govts Minister of State for Justice Lord Tom McNally was speaking.
Lord Derry Irvine who was Tony Blairs Legal Beagle got up and stated that ' Human Rights in the UK were now being TRASHED! He meant trashed by this Coalition Govt.
No other Lord, not even Lord MacNally, challenged this statement by Lord Derry Irvine!

Lord Tom McNally wrote and artcle which was published by the Guardian in Nov 2010 that Human Rights was in Britains DNA and the Coalition Govt had no intention of watering it down!
However at the end of November 2010 Theresa May introduced her controversial new regulations making entry into the UK more difficult for Non EU nationals incl the new computerised English language test!

There has been four Cort cases where T May has lost and Judges Mr Justice Foskett, Lord Justice Sullivan & Mr Justice Birkett and Lord Justice Sedley have found against T May.

Lord Justice Sullivan and Mr Justice Burton said 'the Home Secretary had UNLAWFULLY tried to side-step Parliamentary scrutiny set up under the provisions of the 1971 Immigration Act.

Lord Justice Sedley said on 21 December 2010 it was not for the Court of Appeal to rewrite the rules - that was for the Home Secretary T May - or abandon it!

On 21 Sept 201 Matric Law Firm UK Rabinder Singh QC and Aileen McColgan gave advice to Liberty UK that the Pre English Langauge Test Requirements breached ECHR Article 8 and 14 because the only targeted NON EU nationals and they were also in breach of the UK 1976 Race Relations Act.

T May and the UKBA have ignored these rulings and Court Judgements and intend even worse by now introducing financial restrictions on British nationals with NON EU spouses!

These facts have been totally ignored by the Lib Dem Coalition Govt and the Labour opposition!

I made a comment in a previous post about Russian Millionaires now being allowed acccess into the UK and buying up £Million property that London is now being dubbed Moscow on Thames. I also commented that the press had reported a Russian Millionaire being shot and killed in east London.
In todays Telepgraph is the report that Oligarch Oleg Deripaska a friend and associate of Lord Mandelson has now stated that he paid armed gangs of the Russian underworld protection money as he built his business empire.
The report states Mr Deripaska was slao caught up in controversy over allegations that George Osbourne when Shadow Chancellor attempted to solicit donations from him to the Tory Party.
Consider also that the Guardian reported on 29/10/2011 that Britain is unable to deport 5,000 foreign offenders!

The Guardian reported that the UK Supreme Court had thrown out a blanket visa ban on British citizens under 21 bringing spouses to the UK from abroad! So it seems if we were all under 21 we could bring our spouse into the UK. Isn't this a case of AGEISM because we are over 21?This Court ruling affects 5,000 couples per year! But not the over 21s - age discrimination then?

The BBC reported that the Inst Public Policy Research found the Govt will not fulfill its vow to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands by 2015. We are the victims of TARGETS!

This is the situation we find ourselves in - victims of Targets for the Home Office & UKBA.
We are law abiding tax paying mature respectable self sufficient British citizens who have become victims of political gerry mandering by T May and D Green in order to meet impossible targets brought about by Home Office and UKBA incompetance and inability to do their jobs!
That includes Green and May who have made the situation worse in their last two yrs in office!

I am much intrigued by this preoccupation with tests; I have experimentally attempted the Home Office UK citizenship test twice, and on both occasions did I fail abysmally. As I was born in the United Kingdom to British-born parents, and have always lived here, does this mean that I am:
(1) conspicuously stupid
- and that I should:
(2) duly deport myself to anywhere that will have me?

My warmest wishes to you all.

Geoffsky. Your experience and input on this matter is very welcome.
It means you are confirming that the tests are indeed extremely questionable and it confirms they are really nothing to do with 'life in the UK' and all about rigged questions to fail genuine applicants.
I have heard all sorts of stories about the actual questions which confirms that the questions have nothing to do with every day living in the UK - unless perhaps you work in the Home Office where their minds seem to be extremely out of touch with reality!
The people who sat down and wrote out these questions probably thought they were being clever and were doing what May wanted. Which is to deliberately make them very difficult.
Because they are so far removed from every day matters they have only demonstrated their divisive intent to be obstructive and to fail people.They questions are so twisted even normal British citizens cannot answer them. They need publicly exposing for what they are!
Damien Green on the Daily Politics program told Andrew Neil that applicants only needed - 'a smattering of English' to get a visa to enter the UK. That is completely false!
Some of us have written to Andrew Neil to ask him to get Damien Green back and challenge him on that comment but we have had no reply.
Either Andrew Neil and the BBC isn't interested in the truth and doesn't want to reveal it, or D Green realises he's been rumbled and will not return to explain his comment.
Thank you for your input it is most valuable please stay in touch and add your experiences.

You did not take the correct citizen test,They wanted answers as to who started the slave trade,who sacrifices the Lusitania,imported drugs into China to kick off the boxer rebellion,.Which country mined the sea routes to Germany,causing 750,000 to starve to death,in spite of all other countries saying it was wrong,and were against it,More recently in the name of oil started an illegal war.I feel sure the answers are out there somewhere.They of course would not like the answers,as the truth may possibly damage their wonderful reputation,they wish to burried.

anonymous you are of course quite correct in your comments.
However not all British nationals are unaware of the situation you have raised.
I can trace my family name back to East Anglia in 1250AD and agree with you.
We have more recent examples about Life in the UK that are equally more questionable.
Why did Tony Blair get the UK to throw its lot in with George Bust and invade Iraq for non-existent WMDs?
Why is the UK still in Afghanistan when Osama Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan?
Why did MI6 assist in rendering Libyan nationals to Gadaffi?
Why was Mousa Khousa Gadaffis Intelligence Chief allowed into the UK collect his frozen financial assets and then allowed to leave for Qatar?
Why wasn't he arrested and sent to the International CrimInal Court?
Why has Abu Qatada been allowed £millions in legal aid when we have to be denied our spouses?
Why has the UKBA only deported one third of the illegal migrants in the UK?
How is it that when we live on an island the UKBA has allowed so many illegals into the UK?
Why is it that the Home Affairs Select Committee can find that the UKBA has a 'bunker mentality' and produced data which the Evening Standard reports even the agenct's own Chief Exec Rob Whiteman has difficulty following which can be confusing and misleading?
Why did the Home Affairs Select Committee find the UKBA NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE?
Who has been running the UKBA / Home Office since 2010 - answer T May and D Green!
You are quite correct. I am suggesting that there are more up to date questions for life in the UK test which should be those that are pertinent to situations that have occured since 2010.
Questions that reflects life in Britain today and why Lord Derry Irvine can state in a House of Lords debate UK Human Rights are being trashed!
But thank you for raising the points about LIFE in the UK 2012!

Folks I suggest you go to OurKingdom power and liberty website.
Look for an article by Tim Otty QC titled 'the slow creep of complacency and the souls of English justice.
Tim Otty QC is an expert in public law and civil liberties. He is a member of Blackstone Chambers and in 2000 won the Liberty / Justice Human Rights Lawyers of the year.
I suggest you read the article and especially the comments posted by readers.
Specifically you may be interested in, and wish to add your own, to those of the posts of Realtime2 - which you may recognise from having been posted on this web site.
Please add your own posts and experiences. Its one more opportunity to get out situation and loss of our Human Rights in the UK on the web!
Right on the article by Tim Otty QC a Human Rights Lawyer. Thanks.

I have been trying since April 8 th to get a response to my email,From Damian Green and at long last it arrived from one of his underlings****It is in reply to my question about his statement,That it is only fair that immigrants who benefit from the system should help fund it. ***********************************************************************************************************
Where an individual is unsuccessful in applying for leave to enter or remain they are not subject to any immigration status. As such, any recourse to public funds would become an issue for the body responsible for awarding the benefit rather than the UK Border Agency. Where an individual in the UK is eligible for public funds it is for them to decide how they use this and is not currently an issue with which the UK Border Agency has any jurisdiction. This would include where they are financially responsible for supporting family members outside of the UK.
I am of course a little curious as to what this body may be,as the extortionate fees are payed to the UKBA.and not a secret body.The unsuccessful ones will still pay to fund something they will not receive.They will not benefit from the syatem at all.While the successful ones would not know until two years down the line.There is not any financial support for family members outside Europe,as I and others know,as we cannot even get a pension increase in many countries.

dave - it all sounds to me like the usual get out gobbledygook you get from D Green / UKBA which is in fact meaningless and they know this. They do this to avoid being pinned down and it again clearly demonstrates the total unreliablilty of the UKBA and D Green.
Keith Vaz MP Chair of the Home Affairs Committee which found the UKBA 'not fit for purpose' was reported in the Independent that the UKBA has a 'bunker mentality'.
Keith Vaz went on to say '' the reputation of the Home Office, and by extension the UK Govt, is being tarnished by the inability of the UK Border Agency to fulfil its basic obligations!
Britains Border Agency is accused of trying to 'circumvent' attempts by Parliament to get information for MPs to hold the organisation to account!
The UKBA is unacceptably obstructive when providing information to MPs!
The London Evening Standard reported that 'UKBA data was suspected of being misleading - that even the agencies own CEO Rob Whiting had difficulty in following is confusing & misleading!
If we then read the report that the UKBA Independent Chief Insp. John Vive has found that 4.000 foreign criminals had been set free to fight deportation including murderers rapists and child sex offenders what chance do respectable tax paying self sifficient British citizens have?

So as usual its one law for the British Govt and another for the British people losing our FREEDOM to marry and live in our own country with the spouse of OUR CHOICE!
I suggest we keep banging our drum and give this disgraceful Govt policy as much publicity as we can wherever we can - we need to give this injustice & loss of our FREEDOM publicity.
The Coalition ahs been in office two years. Instead of cleaning up the UKBA its made it bigger.
When PM Cameron preaches democracy to the world we can vouch he's talking HYPOCRACY!

Lets not forget the London Heathrow UKBA fiasco has got the Airport Authority and the Airline Operators up in arms about the UKBA's inability to handle the passenger passport checks.
This is making the travelling public more aware of the UKBA Green & May incompetence!
Once the British public start asking whats going on at the UKBA then May and Green may have to consider their policies and how effective they really are - and there are plenty of critics!

We should bear in mind that a lot of so called illegal immigrants or overstayer didnt do so out of choice but as a result of administrative bottlenecks put in place by the Home Office. Many of these people were here legal, apply to regularise their stay and were denied after couple of years. At that point, they have formed family lives, already contributed so much to the society. For that reason, its their right to fight for stay no matter how long it takes.
So, when we talk about illegal immigrants we should try to know the reason why someone become illegal immigrants before deciding their fate

Anonymous we do.
But we also have to bear in mind the migrants who came to the UK on a boni-fide spouse visa,
They lived in the UK as totally self sufficient respectable citizens, they applied for but were denied visa extensions by the UKBA under their new regulations and had to leave the UK to return to their own country before their UK visa expired.
Their spouses are free born British citizens who are fully established and self supporting. Their Right to a Family Life guarranteed under ECHR Article 8 was breached.
The only reason because they were NON EU nationals which is in fact discriminatory and racist under UK which T May breached was taken to Court and lost her case when the Judges found her regulations UNLAWFULL.
May was told to put her regulations before Parliament but she never has. The only reason is she knows her regulations are unlawfull but no other politicians will challenge her in Parliament!

We now see in the latest news the complete failure of the Home Secretary and Immigration Minister in dealing with the UK borders and the incompetence of the UKBA at the airports!
Both the Telegraph and the Guardian report on the Home Office & UKBA trying to cover up this mess by telling the airport not to publicise / report what is happening at London Heath Row.
More evidence of the incompetence of May Green the Home Office and the UKBA!
The Telegraph reports that Damien Green states 'we only want the brightest immigrants'!
But Green is the MP who encouraged a Govt employee to provide information which led to his own arrest in the House of Commons. From the Police station he wanted to call Andy Coulson!
Green appeared on BBC TV Daily Politics and told Andrew Neil on air that 'visa applicants only needed a 'smattering of english' to be granted a visa to enter the UK!
However the reality is the new computerised English language test the UKBA introduced has shown even born and bred British nationals have failed!
But the fee to take the test is £130 per time - which has to be paid every time the test is taken!

D Green has also stated ''we only want the brightest immigrants''. He doesn't state that includes all the Russian £millionaires being allowed into the UK that it is reported is turning London into Moscow on Thames! They are buying up the £2M houses in London.
The Mail reports on the Russian who was shot in East London now being guarded in hospital.

The Mail also reports that the UKBA only deports one third of the illegal immigrants it catches.
The Independent reports that Home Sec T May was asked 14 time about Abu Qatada and 14 time she dodged giving an answer!

Is it any wonder that the Home Affairs Select Committee found the Borders Agency 'unacceptably obstructive providing information to MPs and wasn't fit for purpose?

The Home Secretary inherited a UKBA mess but after two years of incompetence in office she and D Green have made that mess even bigger instead of cleaning it up!
But isn't that true of the UKs economy, taxes, NHS and local Govt under this Coalition Govt?

MRN has prepared a template letter on the issue of family migration proposal which can be forwarded to Members of Parliament. We are asking everyone who is concerned about these changes to send this to their MP via

The letter is asking the MPs to attend a meeting in Parliament (16 May 2012) on the issue of family migration which will be addressed by a panel of cross-party MPs and Lords.

The template is available below:

I hope everyone saw the Immigration Minister D Green's statement to Parliament on the LHR passport control situation and compared that with the press and TV reports.
Also notably the comment in Parliament by Keith Vaz MP and the Immigration Minister's reply.
We can see the size of credibility gap that exists between D Green's statement and reality!
The same exists with the statements made by T May - most notably her CAT gate comment which she filched from Nigel Farage of UKIP.
These two Ministers control the Home Office and the UKBA so the problem we have is obvious!
A credibility gap the size and length of the Grand Canyon and an immigration mess the size of the Everglades. My apologies to those two fascinating places for using them as analogies but my point is the enormity of the MESS that May and Green have further created in the last two years from the mess Phil Woolas left. They have enlarged the problem when they should have been trying to reduce it!
Then the enormous Legal fees spent on Abu Qatada by successive UK Govts!

Instead of starting to clean up the Woolas mess May and Green embarked on a series of regulations and measures that have enormously enlarged the problem instead of reducing it!

This fetid policy reflects on PM Cameron because his famous comment 'we are all in this together' is now seen to be as equally ridiculous as the May and Green statements!

The only one who is talking any sense is Keith Vaz MP Chair of the Home Affairs Select Com.
All the Lib Dems are deaf blind and dumb and the Labour group are impotent. No wonder George Galloway won in Bradford because the new young voters recognised that the existing political parties are all well past their sell by date. PS Galloway wants the Commons bar shut!

Unfortunatley we are stuck with these issues and like everyone else in the same position have to live apart from their spouses and thus refused a family right even though I am 100 % British.
My wife is really strugling to learn English to the required level. This government have trashed human rights in this country. I refuse to pay these fees for visa and tests and other add hock fees. The government are not listening to anyone so we have little hope of change until a new election and perhaps a different party is in government. The local elections should show and tell us how the people in this country are thinking. I have already given the labour candidate a piece of my mind and views on the doorstep. Let the Conservatives or Lib Dems knock on my door if they dare. I would say that if you are a British subject your rights are less than an EU citizen so we end up on a hiding to knothing here.

Today Sky & Channel4 news featured an interview with Willy Walsh CEO of the Intl Air Group ( which used to be BA ) about the UKBA passport delay checks at LHR.
Willy Walsh says that D Green only uses the times when the passengers actually get to the Border Agency desk area to measure time for handling of passport checks and clearances.
Green ignores the time passengers have been standing in LHR corridors waiting to get to the passport control desk.
He suggests that in effect D Greens statement in the Commons was 'misleading' Parliament!

A lady passenger appeared on Channel4 news with John Snow. She said from when they landed she waited over 3 hours at LHR to clear passport control.
She was so incensed by the time it took she emailed Green and Channel4 about the true facts.
What is my point? Why do I raise this matter. Well we have evidence from Willy Walsh and and irate lady passenger that when D Green makes a statement he may not be using the same yardstick they / we would use!
This is the duplicious practise we have come to expect from the Home Office and the UKBA.
It chimes with Green claiming on BBC Politics to Andrew Neil that visa applicants only need a 'smattering' of English. When the truth is far different.
I suggest the significance is that the proposed new income regulations, like every thing else we have encountered, may be just as tricky and should not be taken at face value!
May, Green the Home Office and UKBA are using every tricky way they can find to justify their policies of reducing net immigration and are only allowing in the people they chose as suitable!

Chris what we can do is keep making our blogs and giving an airing to what we have learnt from our experiences and post on the internet!
The internet can be read from anywhere, any other country, by anyone.
Even by the Home Office and the UKBA by May Green and Cameron's cameroons!
Let them know we have tumbled them. We know what they are up to and see through them.
Don't lets forget Murdoch thought he had the UK stitched up but he has now been rumbled.
The same is happening with Cameron May and Green the Home Office and the UKBA.
The public are realising just what a mess it all is and the incompetence of Govt departments!
Especially when it hits them like the lousy budget and now the fiasco at LHR.
Go onto other websites Like Our Kingdom Open Democracy and the news media & papers.
Wherever you see opportunity put your two penny worth in and enlighten the public.
FREEDOM of speech and expression - use it. Freedom to blog our case and cause!
Even on overseas websites show them Cameron isn't a Democrat.
He is a Public School millionaire POSH Boy who was a PR man and got to be a UK PM.
When he preaches Democracy to other countries we as British nationals / citizens know and should show these countries that PM Cameron is in fact a Hypocrit!
The British public now know this they have tumbled just what the Tory led Coalition is about!

I urge everyone to go onto the OUR KINGDOM OPEN DEMOCRACY website date 2/5/2012.
Find an article by Oliver Bullough titled '' Two fingers to the court: why right wing criticism of the ECHR is misguided''.
There are two posts on there already. One by a Turkish Human Rights Lawyer and one by another guy whose style you should recognise.
This is your opportunity to add your comments to an internationally read website just what is going on in the UK with the denial of Spouse visas for British citizens!
Don't confine yourselves add your comments express yourselves - we have FREEDOM OF SPEACH AND EXPRESSION so let the international community know what the UK Govt is about!
We have been denied out Family Lives guarranteed under ECHR Article 8 and we want our FREEDOM to have our spouses live with us in the UK as we are entitled to have by UK LAW!
Cameron May and Green have no democratic right to take our FREEDOM AWAY - speak out now! Let the world know exactly how we have lost our Right to a FAMILY LIFE in the UK!

A quite disturbing conversation ensued when i ran into a old school friend recently,who works locally as a teacher in an infant school.I was telling her about the problems and uncertainty that we,as a family, are currently facing due to the never ending obsticles and proposed financial demands been put in place by the govt for non eu spouses.She then told me that as a teacher that she and her colleagues are becoming very very concerned about the effects that the actions of this govt( with regard to family immigration )are having upon school children.She then told me about a young boy (age 6) who is in her class,and who up until 2 months ago had always been a bright and happy little boy.At this point teachers noticed a difference in him,he wasn't able to concentrate in class as he once did,wasn't mixing with his friends as he used to and wasn't interacting in school activities.It wasn't until a teacher found this little lad crying alone in the infants toilets that they called his parents in and finally found out what was troubling him so deeply.It transpired that all the problems had enamated from his mother( a chilian national married to a brit) having to sit and pass a english test in order to gain FLR and to remain in the uk! So worried was a 6 year old that his mother would fail this test and be forced to leave the uk,that it affected him very deeply.I makes me ask how many other children are affected in this way on a a nationwide basis?The teacher I spoke too is also very concerned about the message that treating non eu nationals differently to eu nationals(ie a chilian national has to take a english test whilst national of spain does not even though both speak spanish) is sending out to school children in the uk.There is a very real danger that because of the current govt stance that it's ok to treat someone differently because of their ethnic back ground, that this message will manifest it's self in wider society. As we have seen in,segragation and one rule for one, another rule for another does not work and will not work.I think the current way this govt is treating non eu citizens not to mention their uk spouses and children will be looked back upon in the future with a great deal of shame as it is nothing more thann apartheid that is now been advocated by may,green and cameron.When we see police marching with placards demanding they must go,we really do know we've got problems.I suppose anyone caught up in never ending,and ever more bizarre demands being made of uk citizens(which i am one) who spouse is non european,can console ourselves that it's apparent that this govt is managing to upset most of the population as recent election results proved.

just like to add an oz called james wrote on another board about his experiances living in the uk and said he had fwd this to oz media..thank mate if you see this as i saw the auzzie star article..a damning report on uk policy on oz citizens being bullied in the uk.on web there some people ask why oz govt not demand the same income from uk citizens in oz??could happen,would not be good as 96 percent of uk citizens in oz would fail t.may proposals if recpricated in oz.

i am scared about all this new rules I am latin woman non-European and my husband British citizen we are away about 6 months now because I being waiting for my visa in my country but my visa was denied, and now he had to appeal in England so we talking every day just with skype but is really sad I can't sleep every night properly thinking when we gonna live together again and have normal life like husband and wife my husband is depress , we are marriage because we love each other loads and we want to live together and have are kids the thing is he can't living here with me he working in England he pay he's tax this is to much for us they want destroy are family life unfair

Hi Anonymous,very sorry to hear about the problems you and your husband are experincing,you are right,the uk is becoming a very scary place for uk citizens who have a non eu spouse.If it's any consolation it seems to be a growing trend that first visa application is refused as i know of three people who have applied for entry visas in the past year as spouses of uk citizens,all three were refused only to be granted upon submission of a second application!! A nice litte money spinner!! Depending on the reason for refusal, it is also an option to point out to the embassy that they have made a mistake and give them the oppurtunity to issue the visa before appealing the decision.My wife was refused a visa in 2008 but the reason for refusal was weak as they had stated that there was no evidence submitted to prove our claim that our relationship had commenced when we had stated!!This was despite us having provided documentation detailing a reletionship spanning 2 years incl wedding photos.I also asked why would 2 people collect evidence of relationship from the very first time they had met in order to procurre a a uk visa?I also pointed out that the relevant immigration rules stated that the 2 parties had merely had to have met.I was also astounded that the refusal letter stated that there was nothing to stop me re locating to Thailand to join my wife there,a quite remarkable comment given that the individual that composed it was in full possetion of the facts which,had have been read would have revealed that this was not an option as my father, who was then dying of cancer resided with me.I pointed out to the embassy that in order for me to re locate to Thailand (as they had suggeted) would mean me either selling or renting my home in the uk to finance such a move,a scenario which would have meant the uk paying to accommadate my father.It was when faced with these facts that the visa was issued! After all this we have been faced with an english test last year in order to gain FLR for my wife,and now we are uncertain as to whether or not she will be able to gain FLR OR ILR when her current visa expires next year due to these new financial requirements that the govt is proposing.It is gettting almost impossible to live a normal family life in the uk if you have a spouse which is non european.I hope that you are able to obtain your visa very soon,if you feel you have grounds to ask the embassy to reconsider their decision then do so.If this is not possible then it is sometimes more advantageous to submit a fresh application rather than to go through the appeal procedure,but do bear in mind to submit any fresh application quickly if your husband does not meet the proposed income requirements.It might also be an idea to employ the services of an immigration advisor,not cheap but a good one will be able to iron out any problems prior to submitting your application.It is illegal under the race relations act what the govt are doing with regard to non eu citizens,they are breaking the law,and by making financial demands of uk citizens they are in effect saying that more affluent members of society are entitled to a a family life whist the less affluent are not.

Hi, is there any of you good folks here able to tell me if the 26,000 ukp req goin to apply to those already in the UK? I'm in a serious situation here as i quit my job and sold my place in miami to relocate to the UK with my brit wife,initial 27 month visa is up nov,and as we earn 21,000 ukp we're worried as hell,we got a young son too.Will this mean that despite selling my place in the US in order to buy a place here that i maybe will not be able to reside in a place here that i paid for outright?It's a crazy situation and one I would expect from a banana rep.If anyone can shed light on this be appriciated.

Hi Miami Dolphin,it's a question that I myself am trying to find an answer to as we are in a similar situation as you.The mac made a reccommendation based solely on income and did not take into account any assests that families may have so we potentially have a situation developing where a couple or family could have an income of 20k yet have the asset of a owned property so therefore no mortgage or rent to pay and we could have a couple or family with an income 30k but with a hefty rent or mortgage to pay of 1,000 per month which would in effect cut their income down to 18,000 per year, yet despite having a larger disposible income, as well as a fully owned property we could possibly see the non eu partner of the couple or family on 20,000 denied a visa to either enter or remain in the uk!We have our own house but i do not earn the 25,700 so as yet we just do not know what the future holds,where our daughter(who is a uk citizen) will go to school,everything is now just so uncertain due to what is becoming intolerable interference into our private family lifes by the govt.There mac reccommendation also did not take into consideration the legal aspects of such financial demands when compiling it's report such as the right to a family life.I also note in that no mention of this has been made by T May such is her haste to implement these new rules.I have made contigency plans to re locate from the uk but why should I be forced out of my home,my job and my country and in effect be exiled for having married a non european? The report deals with solely the financial aspects at which a couple or family are able to claim any benefits,quite remarkable when we consider that despite having millions in the bank, cameron illlegally claimed hundreds of pounds from the uk tax payer to have weeds removed from his house.

oh miami dolphin, i forgot to say if these new proposed new financial rules are going to apply to FLR and ILR then as you have a child and home in the uk then you maybe able to apply for discretionary leave to remain.

I'm afraid I agree with these proposals, the family route has to take its fair share of the immigration cuts along with study and work. There's a very simple solution if you want article 8 applied to British and non British citizens and that is balanced migration. We take one of their citizens and they take one of ours. Obviously it would probably be done on points, so that we don't exchange graduates for manual workers. If that is unsatisfactory and you think all foreign migrants who wish to marry a British citizen, must always come to Britain, then I can only assume it is because of our welfare state, free eduction for migrants children, NHS etc. There is no mention in your article of chain migration, or first cousin marriage, or the fact that specific ethnic minorities will be affected most, because cousin marriage is about money and culture and not love.

Does that mean that we can place similar finance regs on the 1.4 million brits livin in oz(that's the equivelent of 3 cities the size of manchester) and send them back? I married a uk citizen and we reside here but despite your incorrect claims to the contary, plenty of uk citizens who marry foreigners do live abroad.We have a child born here uk passport so you see our child is british as in your post you incorrectly suggesed otherwise.As to why we currently reside in the uk?Sorry to dissappoint you but it certainly wasn't for the reasons you outlined above,it was due to the fact that one of my wife parents were dying.I'd like to seek your opinion as to why so many brits choose to live in oz?D'yer think it's the welfare system and free schools for migrant children.

Other sovereign country's, such as Australia, are free to implement whatever immigration rules and regulations their democratically elected leaders decide are appropriate. Australia is fortunate not to be at the mercy of the unnecessary European court of Human Rights, or the interfering Human Rights act. If the Britain's in Australia all returned at once, immigration would shut down in the UK, so for me that is not a big hardship, even though I am in favour of low, more selective immigration, over a much longer period of time.

If the system was not being abused in such numbers, via chain migration, the numbers for family migration would be much lower and the rules would be much less tough. So you have people who marry foreigners for cultural and financial reasons, to blame for making life harder for the less typical cases such as your own. In other words, if it was just a few hundred people falling in love with a foreign citizen abroad, for the first time in generations, if ever in their family, their would not be a problem.

You are trying to argue that our rules should be soft as their are some reasonable cases, even if it means the system is exploited by much larger numbers. People that emigrate to the UK of their own free will, can not expect to keep bringing over their relatives indefinitely, generations later. How can we be sure as a country, that those people have the skills, education, wealth, or the devotion to this country we need. The age of selective immigration has dawned, as there is simply not the resources in this small country, to continue as we have been doing with mass immigration.

As far as I can see and after having read the posts on this forum we got people who are in employment,have there own properties and whose marriages are genuine and which won't lead to the chain immigration that you mention.As we got british citizens married to an oz(me)an american and a thai don't think any of them will be cousins either(unless i'm my wife's long lost cousin from australia)I think there are proably other websites/forums where you could discuss these matters which are of obvious concern to you.

No problem, I will leave you guys to enjoy your mutual agreement and take my interest in immigration debate elsewhere. I just thought it would be interesting to read what my opponents on this issue think and test both your and my arguments on this subject. Thank you for replying.

This policy is in place already.... what is the point?


UK red tape binds the UK up and strangles the life out of people - inside & outside it's borders.

For the past six years, I've been working 24/7 as a single mum in the UK in order to meet the wretched rules which said we had to prove how we'd never need any government funds, and in order to do that, I had to become a 'social entrepreneur' in order to try and get the affordable sustainable housing which wasn't available.

I've worked my rocks off - because I work self-employed & I've been left unpaid this recession in the first place.

There's NO affordable housing available - and few work opportunities in rural Norfolk anyway.

Having just about got to the point where I'd hit every single tick-box of the last set of rules & regulation - and all those of the planning guidelines for sustainable communities (while working free to save the UK government money), they now go and change the goalposts (yet again).

So now - in the middle of a global economic recession - we're supposed to be earning HOW MUCH????

So let's get this right - I'm supposed to work for no money as a social entrepreneur in order to provide the affordable housing for others which I had proven need of myself in the first place - while across the ocean, my husband & hundreds of his co-workers are still waiting for the 50% wages they weren't paid by a UK International company for up to eight years work.

Neither the PM nor HRH acted on the letter I sent them, detailing the company - and the apparently lack of any overseas tax registration number on the wages slips. (Even though they were duty bound to do so!! - maybe it's because I put it right at the back of the folder of documents, asking for their help to launch my social enterprise - which would offer people ways in which to live without any rent bills, water bills, electricity bills or heating bills...)

I needed them to qualify the previous set of Immigration Rules - AND (in my region) - there's 160,000 householders all on waiting lists for affordable housing, currently living in unaffordable housing like me - many of whom could also have benefited by living in affordable/sustainable.

Living without rent or the other utility bills would have meant people could have lived without any benefits (or government funds) - and this would also have saved the Local Authorities & Government £Millions.

And - now this...

I'm 54 - I met my husband six years ago - by the time I get to meet the next set of Red-Tape - if it takes as long again, I'll be sixty.

Meantime my husband will probably be dead - as he's had so many attacks upon him personally since we met.

So don't we have ANY human rights to live together as God intended?

Who are these men in suits who make the rules anyway? (Well, at least one member of the House of Lords has vested interests in the company which still owes 100s of workers in the Caribbean up to 50% wages for up to eight years work in the first place...!)

its heartbreaking to read tht they have changed the rules to yr income to bring yr loves ones over, i haven't seen my husband in going on for a year , we did everything right i have a good job i don't take public funds , im a good worker but i will never earn 18,600 in a year its heartbreaking being kept away from my husband who i love more this fucking country , but i will not let this government win to keep me away from my husband , this is against our human rights its our right to be wiv the ppl we love , but i will not let them win NEVER

Would Mo Farah's father have been able to bring him over under these rules?

I understand "Anonymous", I am married to a british man, I´m peruvian and never in my life felt so discriminated adn humiliated,I was refused a fiance visa in 2009, even though we already had a british daughter, after that, my now husband decided to come to peru and live here, for me there was no problem as i am a hard working person, same as most latin women, but for him was very sad as his spanish was far from being fluent, even after all these years his spanish is bad, reason why finding a job for him was a big problem, now he is giving private english lessons (cash in hand).
Now we have 02 girls, they both hold british and peruvian passports, but holding a british passsport for them doesn´t make them different than me as, 2 little girls from 4 and 2 yrs old are not gonna travel on their own to live in the UK, so what happens with their rights?
With our wages here we can have a normal life here but for them to have decent education here in peru is gonna be very difficult as public education is crap, and we can´t afford to get them into private schools. How my husband can sponsor me if here, I´m the one that have a credit record not him.
If the British government doesn´t want British people to get mixed with Latinos then should ban it outright instead of creating increasingly discriminatory and humiliating rules.

Many recommendations put forward by the government, if implemented, may interfere with the rights of many people in the life of a British man. In the analysis of the recommendations, last summer, the new family reunion in a small number of EU member states (especially Denmark and the Netherlands), the Immigration Policy Group (MPG), headquartered in Brussels, those plans in the UK have similar restrictions.

So yeah we're not here to argue but to be sure that we don't overlook an issue because we assume that the different parts they were sold are okay we always recommend replacing with the recommended factory plugs and 02's whenever possible! We have hundreds of posts on here that attest to correct plugs and 02's fixing problem vehicles so we see no reason to change opinion now!

The technology that they offer here is so good
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So many families have been ripped apart by this and it is truly heartbreaking. There needs to be a human element in all of this. It is sad reading some of the stories in the comments.