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"Home Office plans are too harsh" - Letter to the editor
The letter was printed in today's Times. As we couldn't find an online copy to share the link here's the original text we submitted to the editor:
Dear Sir,
Current Home Office proposals to introduce new restrictions on British citizens and settled persons who wish to sponsor their non-EU family members to join them in the UK are a blunt and disproportionate policy instrument. These proposed changes would keep families apart and would further marginalise those who already face disadvantages in society.
The proposed measure of a minimum income threshold could mean that individuals earning less than £25,700 a year would not be able to bring a non-EU spouse or partner to live with them in the UK. The income requirement would rise to as much as £53,600 to allow a person to sponsor a spouse and three dependent children. This would potentially prevent half of the UK’s working population from living with their nuclear family in the UK. In addition, theproposed change would discriminate against women, people with disabilities, young people and some ethnic minorities as the average earnings of these groups are lower than the national median income.
While the Home Office has suggested that these changes would reduce costs to the public purse, they have produced no evidence to show that people joined here by a foreign family member constitute a burden on the tax system. In addition, the government should not interfere with people’s right to live with their family members in the UK in order to reduce net migration numbers.
We therefore call upon the Home Secretary to abandon these proposed changes to the rules, which would prevent many from enjoying their right to a family life in the UK. They would threaten efforts to promote stable family life across society as well as the integration of migrants in the UK.
Signed:
Dr Rob Berkeley, Director, Runnymede Trust
Zrinka Bralo, Executive Director, Migrant and Refugee Communities Forum
Kamena Dorling, Migrant Children’s Project Manager, Coram Children’s Legal Centre
Don Flynn, Director, Migrants’ Rights Network
Vaughan Jones, Chief Executive, Praxis Community Projects
Chris Mead, Founder, Family Immigration Alliance
Pragna Patel, Founder and Director, Southall Black Sisters
Habib Rahman, Chief Executive, the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants
Emma Scott, Director, Rights of Women
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Comments
We already know what the objective is. We know why its being done. We know whoes doing it.
We know that similiar regulations by the Home secretary have been challenged in Court and declared unlawfull. We know that T May has been told by the Judiciary that she has side stepped Parliamentary scrutiny and should put her regulations before Parliament.
But she doesn't! We know that she hasn't been challenged in Parliament by the opposition!
We know that the Homke Secretary doesn't care what she does - because she has upset the police and screwed up with the UKBA & shown complete disdain for the queues at airports.
So we know that a letter in the Times by the persons who signed will be ignored by T May.
We know T May has destroyed the Immigration Advisory Service and stopped their funding!
So is there any one out their who has the money to employ, pay for, the expensive legal services to take this matter to the Courts and get it legally challenged?
Abu Qatada's legal costs have amounted to nearly £1million paid out of public funds!
The Telegraph reports - More than 800 foreign criminals have avoided deportation five years after release! That 200 war criminals have been identified by Britain and only three deported!
Then to address the LHR fiasco the Home Office has taken officers off checking for guns and drugs and transferred them to passport stamping!
Damien Green has publicly stated 'we only want the brightest immigrants'.
This apparently includes the Russian banker who was shot in east London and is now in hospital under police guard who claims that ' Four colleagues ordered a 'hit' on me!
British police have now gone to Russia to investigate!
So the brightest means what in Damien Greens speak - probably the same wind thats causing the LHR immigration fiasco!
The Guardian reports that the Chief Inspector of Immigration says the UK Border Agency has 5,000 more cases it cannot deport despite repeated by the Home Office ministers to speed up removals.
Keith Vaz MP Chair of the Home Office Select Comm has stated the Borders Agency is unacceptably obstructive when providing information to MPs on his committee!
Question 'how long can PM Cameron continue to allow this situation to carry on?
Is it that he's so busy texting 'RB LOL DCV' that he hasn't time to address the UKs real problems - that being in the last 2 yrs in office T May has increased the UKBA mess instead of addressing it! How long is this failed policy going to be allowed to continue by a failed Govt?
T. May, D.Green, D.Cameron and every other minister living off the hard working tax payer do not give a hoot. They will ignore the above letter, they will fail to respond in any way. They will continue to attack the British Citizen who falls in love and marries a non eu spouse knowing that we the public are absolutely powerless. Any company, law firm or charity that attempts to help us or challenge government policy will have funding cut or be bogged down in so much red tape it will grind to a halt. Take the Chapti case decision delayed well past the expected October date. May is doing everything possible to reduce net migration by forcing British citizens to leave the country. We should remember May is targeting non eu spouses because she cannot target EU citizens. I for one am now in a position where I have decided to sell up and move out. I would rather contribute to another European countries economy than continue paying taxes that will keep this heartless woman in her comfy job.
"They will continue to attack the British Citizen who falls in love and marries a non eu spouse knowing that we the public are absolutely powerless.".
What if it is simply about marrying a first cousin, back in the Indian sub continent, in an arranged marriage. They have probably only met only once and that's only because of UK immigration rules as it is a condition of a spouse visa. It's all about keeping money in the family and is simply cultural. It is chain migration, happens in every generation and deliberately prevents integration as well as increasing the population.
@IJMO
I'm not a fan of arranged marriages myself but why should we prevent people from marrying whoever they wish if that's their choice? There is a huge difference between arranged and forced marriage.
Also, we shouldn't use a sledgehammer to crack a nut: the disadvantages of the proposal outweigh the 'advantages' (if any!). Have you got any evidence to back your assertion that arranged marriages prevent integration?
EuroCitizen we are not talking arranged marriages. Many of us, like myself, have lived and worked overseas where we met our wives and got married. I am a British citizen born and bred in the UK who has worked overseas and always had a home in the UK.
I met my wife in 1984 she is NON EU national.
I worked in Saudi on the oilfields. I was able to have my wife to live with me in Saudi and she has lived with me in our own home in the UK.
She doesn't work just keeps house although she has a BA in Business studies and did work for two international companies.She is fully supported by me & not the state!
Isn't it a reflection on the UKs human rights today that although I was able to have my wife live with me in Saudi and she has previously lived with me in the UK but I do not have the FREEDOM as a British citizen to have my wife live with me in the UK today!
A Freedom that was taken from me as a British national by PM Cameron Home Sec T May and Imm Minister D Green. I had more Human Rights in Saudi that I have in the UK!
I am not the only British Citizen who is in this position whoes Right to a Family Life under ECHR Article 8 and the UK Human Rights Act who have had our Freedoms trashed by a xenophobic discriminatory racist Govt who talk democracy but in fact practise hypocracy!
@ Geronimo
I was responding to the comment by IJMO who was referring to arranged marriages.
Euro Citizen yes I understand it was a comment about culture and the ways of other nationals in which they have been raised up and have always lived.
I worked with different nationals in Arabia and have lived in the Far East.
We should understand our western culture is as different to them as theirs is to ours.
I found it is best to respect other peoples cultures and they will respect ours.
Regetably in the UK there is a tendency to be judgemental and look down on other cultures as inferior!
That is I suggest born out of ignorance and arrogance and doesn't help with integration.
I often think the British as an Island race with limited overseas experience. They suffer from Island minds - i.e. limited understanding and an unjustified superiority complex!
Where that become dangerous is when its translated into racism from which stems discrimination and the policies now being implemented in the UK!
This was the policy in the 1930s nazi Germany introduced by one Adolf Hitler!
Right wing ideaology is riseing in Europe & what motivated the Norway massacre!
If the UK PM Cameron wants to preach democracy to the world the place to start and hold up as an example is the UK. But the UKs Govts policies are now discriminatory and racist!
@ Geronimo
Sometimes I think you tend to be too harsh and over-generalizing. I don't think the British are somehow more ignorant or arrogant than any other nation: immigration breeds a sense of insecurity and, as you rightly point out, it is the government's job to introduce policies that allay these fears. They obviously fail to do it not because they are racist but because it is easier and cheaper to pander to some basic instincts which are inherent in most humans (I don't mean racism but rather the fact that in a situation of uncertainty/insecurity the importance of national identity and the distinction between insiders/outsiders intensifies).
Look at the thousands of people who support liberal and humane immigration policies (including the wonderful people running Migrants Rights and many other NGOs helping refugees and asylum seekers).
EuroCitizen thank you for your comments which are welcome and open up the debate.
Your comment - ''it is the Govts job to introduce policies that allay fear''. I agree 100%.
But that isn't what the Coalition Govt is doing! In fact it is doing the reverse and fermenting racial disharmoney! I will explain why I make that statement.
In Sept 2010 Liberty UK asked Matrix Rabinder Singh QC and Aileen McColgan to adise on the Coalition Govts proposal to introduce - ' pre-entry english language requirement''.
The Matrix report to Liberty UK is available on their website A 12 page report set out and stating that the Govts intentions actually breached ECHR Articles 8 & 14 and were open to challenge under the UK Race Relations Act.
The Matrix report was clear and concise and Liberty asked the Govt for consultation.
At the beginning of Nov 2010 Lord Tom McNally Coalition Govt Minister for Justice wrote in the Guardian 'Human Rights is in Britians DNA & the Coalition Govt have no intention of watering it down'. That turned out to be a complete Lie!
At the end of Nov 2010 the Coalition Govt T May rushed in her new regulations ignoring the request by Liberty for consultation and in direct opposition to the Comments of Ld McNally!
These new regulations were put into effect on 14 December 2010 and a have been used to. as Lord Derry Irvine so apply put it in a lords debate - to TRASH HUMAN RIGHTS in the UK!
I refer you to certian newspapers, and Don Flynn MRN has commented in the Guardian, that have blatantly used the term 'immigrant' to castigate all foreigners!
Just read the Daily Mail reports on the Chapti case and the public comments the DM incited!
There is no doubt in my mind that the way the articles were slanted they were designed to create an anti reaction to Mrs Chapti and her husband. Why because they are immigrants!
I have travelled and the worst people to travel with are other Brits. For some reason in the Brit character needs to consume volumes of alcohol and brag which seems to make them believe they are ' a race apart'.
Well they are in that they become arrogant unresonable and intoxicated!
They then seenm to want to 'gang up' on other people and endeavour to bully by numbers.
I know I have seen it witnessed it and its especially prevalent in Thailand.
Yet when I mix among ordinary Thai people I find them friendly gracious and tolerant.
So we all speak as we find from personal experience.
My experience of the British Embassy ECOs is the same.
My wife was required to go to the Brit Embassy when applying for her visa.
She has been used to speaking english with me.
But the British Embassy ECO was a Scot! She couldn't understand him.
He called her a liar! He bullied her. I was called in and he started to bully me!
He had a complete file he hadn't read.
That file had all my personal details on home/ bank statements / personal papers. It contained the name address phone numbers of my neighbours including a retired Judge I know.
He hadn't read the file. He could have got on the phone to the UK and done a check but he didn't! Instead he tried to bully me but I don't bully easy.
I asked the Scot ECO for my file back. He refused to give it back.
I then referred him to an email in my file from the British Embassy advising me three weeks previously that I could collect my file from the Embassy. But I hadn't done so.
This is my experience of Brits abroad from over intoxication to bullying British Emabssy ECO's.
I return to your comment.
The Govt should introduce policies that allay fear. Couldn't agree more. Well they haven't and they dont't.
I know Brit nationals who have been given a big problems by overbearing and bullying UKBA staff at airports who can be sullen unhelpfull and obstructive.
This was not for professional reasons. I sometimes wonder if this is how some Brits, who find they can wield a little power, get their rocks off!
The reason is it comes from the top down. The rank and file take their attitude from their bosses and that goes right up to the top i.e. PM DC!
Did you see DC try to put down Denis Skinner in a Commons debate and tell him to retire?
Skinner is a man who came from the coal face worked his way to be an MP has had cancer He represents his constituents well. Telling Skinner to retire is AGEIST!
So we can add ageism to discriminatory racism which has incited immigration fears and introduced policies that have enhanced feeling against immigrants en masse instead of doing what you suggest allaying fears!
The Coalition has now had two years to sort out the previous Govts legacy. Instead of tackling the problems this Coalition Govt have made the mess bigger and caused more problems.
They have done this and incited more racism instead of any policies to allay the fears!
I agree with your comment that is what should have been done - but it just isn't Govt policy!
A strong and precise letter. Unfortunately I fail to see how see how any attempt at reasoning with a person who refuses to be reasoned with is going to help. This government fails to see that the family route is is simply different in comparison with the all the other routes. Family is too important. The "arranged marriage" imperative, and the insinuation of it as a justification for splitting up thousands of families across the UK is asinine, and anyone who would conjure it up is a redundant person. T May claims to be concerned for the British public, and to be acting according to their will, that means the WHITE British public. All the British born people of foreign descent, or those who would dare to marry someone from another country DO NOT COUNT as the British public to the current government. The current government insists there is a cultural threat to the "one British way of life," and all immigrants are fostering that threat.Immigrants WANT to make the UK more multicultural to SPITE you and do EEEEVVVILLLL things!
There is no justification for this "tightening up" on family immigration: migrant families already have it harder than most as it is. Particularly irksome to me is this 5 year probationary period, even for those already here on a 2 year probationary visa is unacceptable. Whats to stop it from being extended to 10, or 20 years? Why is there no accountability within the Border Agency whatsoever? If you tell somebody a date, and give them terms for their visa, that should be the END OF IT. That's called responsibility. Fulfilling your end of deals you make.
Is there even going to be any further debate on these oppressive "reforms" in Parliament? Or does T May really just get to crush the families she is apparently sworn to protect, with no protest from her superiors? (she does have them).
These people are apparently Christians. People that profess charity and goodwill.
Everyone that's worked so hard to make it to the UK already, who pay taxes and don't claim benefits because they cant in the first place.
These people are the scapegoats for gross mismanagement in government catering to local yobs who refuse to work and care nothing for the laws of their country, or the people who pay for their council flat, spit racial slurs at and attack immigrants who respect the UK and want to make it their genuine home.
These policy changes are not lawful. There is no reason they should be able to happen. If not the British and the EU courts, what about the UN? There must be someway to get around this madness.
Anonymous
that is my point precisely there is no reasoning with Cameron May and Green who are 'dyed in the wool' discriminatory racists and destroying British freedoms i.e. the freedom the, right, to chose your own wife / husband and live a family life together!
The Coalition Govt have set out to dictate to Britsh nationals they cannot marry who they like if that person is a NON EU national - freedom of choice has been denied to British citizens!
I know that this policy is aimed at the Pakistani and Indian community and other born and bred British citizens like myself have been caught up in it.
Mrs Chapti is a British national of Indian descent and her husband is Indian.
I do not believe Mrs Chapti and her husband represented any more negative affects on the UK compared to some of the persons getting visas into the UK today under Green, who seem to have questionable backgrounds and with it is alleged criminal or terrorist affiliations!
But Mrs Chapti is not a £millionaire whereas some of D Greens 'brightest' are £millionaires and some of their aquaintences are alleged to be linked to criminal mafia in their home land!
The London Evening Standard reported the shot Russian banker claims four of his colleagues ordered a 'hit' on him. He is now in hospital under police guard while police go to Russia to investigate!
The Guardian has reported - ' Britain is unable to deport more than 5,000 foreign offenders!
Cameron May and Greens policies instead are aimed at respectable honest and hard working people. While in comparison these criminals gain access to the UK at their leisure and this is due to the policies of the British Coalition Govt under PM Cameron T May and D Green!
But the average British person reading the slanted reports of some press vent their anger on the 'immigrants' not distinguishing between different immigrants or the 'pros and cons'.
To the average Brit their venom is vented towards all the immigrants coming into the UK!
They fail to consider that the UK is an island with a 20 mile moat at its narrowest.
They fail to consider the ports and airports are manned by the UK Border Agency and if illegals do get in then it is the Border Agency who are responsible!
They fail to consider that no one can get public funds without going thro the DWP etc.
So illegals getting in and being paid benefits can only do so with Govt departments approval!
Who runs these Govt Departments - not the man in the street - its the Govt Ministers!
But the average British national doesn't see that this is due to the incompetence and misguided incorrect and inefficient policies of Cameron May and Green - who are responsible!
The average British national fails to hold the true perpetrators the PM Home Sec & Immigration Minister to account! Why because they have been indoctrinated by the Cameron spin machine!
We have outlined the methodolgy of the Coalitions Govts immigration policy but perhaps to understand why its happening we need to consider the policy itself.
PM Cameron, T May and D Green have pledged themselves to reduce overall immigration.
By that they mean net immigration which is total immigration minus emigration.
British nationals and others are therefore being encouraged to emigrate.
What the Coalition Govt cannot control is immigrantion from the EU,
Therefore they have targeted NON EU nationals which makes their policy discriminatory and racist and unlawfull!
But organisations like the Institiute of Public Policy Research has stated the Coalition Govts policy will not achieve its objective targets by 2015 the next election.
Therefore this Coalition Govt is resorting to more extreme methods to reach its target.
Which now means the introduction of minimum income levels added to the measures the Govt has already implemented. By that means the Govt hopes to reach its immigration target.
What we have in effect is a numbers game for a policy which the Govt aims to be able to claim to the public by the next general election it has succeeded in reducing immigration.
What Cameron May and Green' their policy, is to be able to gain votes at the next election on the basis they have reduced immigration.
To do that they are willing to breach ECHR and UK Law. The people / numbers they are targeting are NON EU.
The Govt see Non Eu as outside the remit of the ECHR and therefore to them do not matter!
This Coalition Govt does not recognise they are dealing with, and hurting, people.
To them they are just dealing with 'numbers'!
I refer all readers to todays Guardian go to search 'immigration uk' and look for - New rules for overseas universities will cost the UK universities billions'. That'a £Billions!
This is not the first time this matter has been raised. In fact it is ongoing.
I watched a House of Lords debate in which it was stated that by 2015 the UK would be losing £25Billion in student income fees due to the Coalition Govts policy on restricting student visas.
The Guardian report today raises this matter again showing this Coalition Govt is prepared to lose the UK income fees and probably loss of UK jobs just to fulfill its distorted policy on UK visas for NON EU nationals.
The Guardian states its all because of the Conservatives election pledge to cut migration by tens of thousands by 2015.
The UK Govt should have policies to bring wealth into the UK not reduce and stop wealth.
I know that overseas national like to send their sons and daughter to study in the UK.
The UK educational establishments are now looking at opening up overseas taking that income wealth into other countries. Great for these other countries but a complete loss for the UK!
This is the self destructive policy of the Coalition Govt driven by PM Cameron May & Green.
It shows the completely flawed thinking of the policies being implemented by May and Green.
Like the 'wrong wind causeing the LHR queues & Mays CAT blunder she pinched from Farage!
The Conservatives made an election pledge that they hadn't thought out that was impracticle as well as discriminatory and racist as well as unlawfull losing the UK £bILLIONS.
So the Tories continue with their destructive policy losing UK £Billions and hurting people!
What it needs is the MPs of all parties whoes constituencies have people affected by these Tory policies to band together and challenge them in Parliament.Irrespective of party loyalty!
I have approached my MP without success. He is a good Coalition supporter who has beneifted. Similarly I know others who have approached their MP and had the same response.
But like the Bradford West and George Galloway result against the three established parties those similair constituents have the voting power to collectively approach their MPs and make their point on the discrimination racism injustice and loss of freedom put on UK citizens by this unjust policy of Cameron May and Green and the Tory nasty party right wing politicians!
I and my brit wife and baby could have serious problems with the financial proposals.As yet i can't seem to find out if these will apply to those already in the uk?Any of you guys here know?My situation is that i sold my place in the us to re locate to the uk after having married my brit wife.I also quit my job in the us.The reason for electing to move to the uk were that my mom and pa are dead whilst my wife's mom and pa are happily still alive but getting older,so i sold and bought a place here outright as our maritial home.I am getting worried as we make 21,000 ukp a year,so if these regulations come in I could be in real serious situation.It seems crazy as we no mortgage or rent to pay.I just thinking if i am unable to secure ilr or a further visa when my current 27 month visa expires in nov,then will i be forced back to the us to no work and no home??Or am i expected to sell the place and re buy a place in miami leaving the state here house and provide for my wife and child as i could not get a us visa for them for the us due to my having no established income there anymore due to my re locating here? After having bought a place here I now find i might not be allowed to live in a place that i bought because the govt are saying we do not earn enough money,when we do,i'm begginning to feel that i've been conned and robbed.
@ Miami Dolphin: Dude I really feel for you. How ridiculous is it after packing up and leaving your home (knowing fully how big of a step you are taking) and sacrificing everything so you could be with your wife in her homeland, and help her to feel more comfortable, that you are actually being questioned on your motivations and rights to live in the UK. More than half my family is from the Nottingham area. I grew up with England being just as important as the US to me, and only by coincidence did I actually meet and fall in love with a beautiful English woman and get married. I gave up my whole family who miss me dearly to live in a country that doesn't even want me apparently( ten years ago England was soooo fuckin laid back). I knew full and well what I was doing, and I dare say, none of these yuppies in power have any clue what they are doing, nor do they care.
Sadly I dont think anybody has the answer to your questions, I truly believe it is actually easier to emigrate to the states now than the UK, and aside from the horrendous costs for medical coverage, the UK really has no advantages. I worked so hard just to get my probationary spouse visa, even though we had been married and living together in the states for over 4 years, and together as a couple for 10! 10 years, and we still are guaranteed nothing. My prayers are with you my fellow American. May our families and loved ones shine through these dark times.
The letter Times states that the new Home Office proposed financial income regulation are too harsh. Which is absolutely correct!
In todays Telegraph personal finance section is a report by Richard Evans that ''More than 6 million people will receive less than the minimum wage in retirement!
This report the provides the details of the minimum wage of £11,477 compare with the current uk state pension of £9,672 which 6 million are predicted to retire on.
So the proposed minimum income level of £25,700 for a UK national to bring in their spouse would be set at twice the UK minimum way and far in excess of the UK state pension!
This shows just how grossly incorrect the £25,700 income level is for a Btitsh national to bring into the UK their spouse - let allone the difference if they have children!
It reinforces the policy argument that the UK Govt proposal is just punitive discriminatory and racist. It isn't based on any idea of equity and justice but is purely to limit numbers of NON EU nationals who are married to UK nationals.
A Coalition Govt policy designed to split marrages and destroy family life which British nationals are entitled to under ECHR and UK law which this UK Coalition Govt chooses to ignore & TRASH! An example of PM Cameron's hypocracy replacing democracy!
I refer readers to todays Guardian uk immigration reports as follows-
' Ministers playing immigration numbers game by including students'.
This is a report by Alan Travis that - ministers have included overseas students in the Govts net immigration count because they are more interested in playing the numbers game than with the long term migration.
The Inst of Public Policy Research report states the refusal to exclude international students from the Govts drive to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands is damaging British education and putting at risk £4Bn to £6Bn a year in benefits to the UK economy.
This report is worth a read if you are interested how Govt Ministers are manipulating and mis-using numbers by including overseas students to inflate their figures and damage UK economy!
The Guardian states the Govt want to reduce immigration from 240,000 per year to 100,000 per year by the time of the 2015 general election!
Its worth reading to see how the minds of Immigration Minister D Green and Co work!
miami dolphin I regret to have to say that I think you may have a problem.
There have been cases on other MRN sites in a similiar situation.
I hope I am wrong but I suggest that you could find out the hard way when you apply for a visa. You meet delay from the UKBA - they delay to make you wait until these new regulations are introduced!
This is UKBA / Home Office methodology. They withold / fail to publish their intent then delay visas until the new regs are introduced. Warning - don't overstay your visa - they use that against you!
I say this from personal experience with my own NON EU wife dating back to Dec 2010 and Jan 2011. It should not be the case but it is.
The UKBA do not care about people they only do what their boses the Ministers say and are looking at 'numbers' for the 2015 election.
There was an Australian guy on another MRN website in the same situation as you.
He finally decided to take his Brit wife and baby back to OZ. Sorry to have to tell you this but its best you know the facts and what your up against. best wishes to your family.
european citizen,
With respect I think you misundersttod Geronimo's comment about the rascist pollicies of May , Green and supported by the PM. He meant that Uk citizens are discriminated against by the obnoxious english test and life in UK test etc simply because they have chosen to marry someone from a country where applicants are not exempt from taking the english test such as Russia ( my lady is from that counry ) or any ex-soviet union country and other countries . Applicants from some countries such as USA , Jamaica etc are exempt from taking it . So in that sense it is "rascist" policy as it singles out certain countries to discriminate against which is wrong in anyone's book.
It is correct to say that the petition to the UK government mentioned above will not elicit a meaningful response as they are appealing to a heartless Prime Minister and his cohorts such as May and Green whose one aim is to pick easy targets such as family immigration in attempt to reduce net immigration. I and others have written to damien Green and asked him to change the policy as it is very unfair, unjust , discriminatory and heartless ( people are NOT just numbers ) causing UK citizens and partners much distress and sadness . The response we get is just a statement of policy throwing in a few lies or exaggerations about our partners finishing up in ghettos if they learnt or improved their english after arriving in UK. he even lied to Andrew Neil on daily politics about " a smattering of english " and Andrew Neil did not pick him up on it as he would be unaware it was not true . It shows clearly the mindset of this government when they need to resort to lies or gross exaggerations and are afraid to debate the issues as the policy would then be exposed for what it is , ie a disgrace and inhumane . I do hope and pray that I am wrong and the petition has some success and they will look into their heart and soul and the so called "christian values" they espouse !
peter well said you have laid out the situation on everything that is now wrong with Britain under this Coalition Govt led by PM Cameron and his Ministers May and Green.
I voted Lib Dem in 2010 and have voted Tory previously. But never again.
I will now vote Labour or even for the Respect Party rather than Cameron and Co who are implementing regressive policies designed to take the UK back to the pre Victorian era.
The hard won democracy of two world wars is being erroded by the Tory nasty party who want to have this country back under their thumb a situation that should be resisted completely!
Folks I have just watched questions in Parliament on Home Affairs with T May & D Green.
I am sorry to have to report that the proposed income levels look as if they are here to stay!
There wasn't much of a challege from the Labour party and Green was strident/ confident in his answer on the matter it was going ahead.
The only other thing he said was about a six month visitors visa to the UK costs £78. This was in reply to a question by Labour MP Denis McShane.
A six months visitors visa would not allow that visitor to work in the UK and they would have to leave before that visa expired - or they become an illegal.
I am afraid it isn't good news but its basically what we expected that this Govt will not change its mind. Its dead set on restricting immigrants.
Very sorry to have to report this but its better to know the truth than be kept in the dark,
I see. Thanks for the update Geronimo. I didn't see this and from what I understood I thought this needed to be actually voted on in Parliament before it passed but apparently I was mistaken. I guess immigration rules are secondary legislation? I don't know but it is just absolutely ridiculous, and totally unacceptable, for me and everyone else caught in this objective manipulation. Our only hope is that the courts will challenge and rule against it, like they did with the minimum age requirement. Is that likely? Probably not, because that would mean people triumphing over government oppression. That doesn't happen. Pack your bags. I guess were going to have to move to another EU country and forget about this place. I've only been coming here since I was 7, grown up around English people, payed taxes and followed the rules of my visa, and basically dedicated a huge portion of my life to this country. I've only been with my partner close to a decade.Its not like we deserve to be respected as a genuine family. She's a British citizen, but I guess since she had the nerve to think outside the box and actually recognize the humanity of a person from another country, she's lost that right. Theresa May has much more wisdom than myself on the subject. I'm just glad between her shopping for high end merchandise made in sweatshops that conduct child slave labor, and worshiping white Jesus, shes finding the time to clue me in to my reality. What a gem.
Dear Mr. Geronimo,
If I am right the new income threshold is for the fresh applications made for spousal visa! It is not for the people who are going to apply for settlement/Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)? This is another ambiguity arisen from question posted by Miami Dolphi.
I would be grateful if you can reply to my concern or many like me.
Thanks
Hi Germonio
Does this mean that the income threshold rule has been approved
I seeked legal advice and I was told this rule will not come official until it has been through parliament and billing and if you remember if it was upto green this rule would of been approved in april 2012
Not to be rude here Anonymous, but I keep hearing people ask this same question and as unfair and malicious as it is, I'm pretty sure in the consultation originally outlined it says in bold letters that under the new proposals, ALL spouses without ILR will have to complete the 5 year period. Nothing has been fair thus far, dont be surprised in this case. Best wishes.
Sam I can only advise that the regulations brought in by T May in Nov 2010 in the matter of 'English tests for NON EU nationals applying for a UK visa' have never been put before Parliament although the Judiciary have criticised that introduction and stated that should have been put before Parliament.
The Matrix advice to Liberty UK of Sept 2010 on Pre visa English tests Liberty asked for consultation and their request was ignored. The Govt has never consulted with Liberty!
Perhaps you may need to think when taking expensive lawyers advice against holding out hope that may never materialise.
Some people who post on MRN blogs have spent a lot of money which hasn't benefited them.
Anonymous I am afraid I really cannot confirm other that what I picked up on BBC TV Parliament program today.
I am the same as everyone else. My NON EU wife and I ran into this problem in Jan 2011 when she applied for a 27 month Spouse visa extension.
That was refused and she left the UK before her visa ran out so as not to become an illegal.
Since then I have been closely monitoring the May Green policy and tried to advise others what is happening in their best interests,
I have looked for a change in Govt policy but only see the situation worsening.
My wife and I have been seperated since Jan 2011. Not out of choice but because of these regulations.
I visit my wife each year for two months at a time but its no way to lead a family life.
So I feel for all of us, and as a British citizen, I am very angry that my freedom to marry and live a family life with the woman I have known since 1984 and love dearly has been trashed by a UK Tory led Govt.
I said previously I had more Rights to a Family Life, was better treated, in Arabia than I have in my own country the UK!
I can only suggest we keep fighting and speak out at every opportunity.
Best wishes to you all I am very sorry I cannot help more.
Anonymous I think we all need to get it squarely in our minds that the UK Govt May and Green want to bring down immigration numbers and the IPPR says their policy is not working!
Therefore I suggest the Home Office / UKBA will use desperate measures and use every means they can think of to achieve their objective.
Green has already stated that 'appeals are to be curbed' - another means of reducing numbers!
We all need to face the reality we just cannot live in hope - its likely to be a false hope.
May and Green are desperate politicians they have upset UKBA staff, the police etc so they will resort to every means they can.
Unless you have big money to challenge them in Court their is little we can do.
Remember they have cut legal aid and shut down the Immigration Advisory Service in pursuit of their aims. May and Green don't care about people they only care about numbers - sorry!
Large number of people look for this office informtion but they cannot get effective one. I really thanks you for sharing it
Serviced Offices Singapore
Meeting Rooms
SOS Singapore welcome.
regetably we in the UK don't know whats going on properly because the UK Govt the Home Office and UKBA do not inform us the British people or even UK MPs and the UK Parliament.
We pick up what we can and have to use our experiences of what the UK Govt has previously done which isn't encouraging for UK nationals let alone others.
Its good to have you join this website / blog because we welcome overseas nationals and hope our UK experiences will be some use to you.
Please continue to be involved comment and ask questions about what is happening in UK.
best wishes to you and all our friends in SE Asia.
Folks I have often referred to the Cameron May & Green their immigration policies as fascist.
Please all read todays Mail Online a report headed - 'Steve Hilton? He is the little Hungarian fascist: What Cameron calls his policy guru.
The source of this report is from Bruce Anderson a Conservative Party commentator.
It makes intersting reading that Steve Hilton has had such a role as the UK PMs policy advisor!
Couple this to the appointment of Andy Coulson, ex News Intl, as communications advisor!
Perhaps this explains the cruel inhuman anti family policies of UK PM Cameron, Home Sec T May & Im Min D Green in implementing discriminatory racist and fascist anti immigration policies against NON EU nationals!
For our Singapore friends this is Britain today i.e. Britains Govt today - and its policies are an undemocratic disgrace!
Folks I suggest you go on the MRN website Don Flynn - 'MAC family settlement report - Not just a matter of pounds and pence'.
This MRN site deals with the matter we have been posting about and has very useful information.
On 7 March Andy posted some very good information on comparisons of the UK and in the situation in other countries. It makes very informative reading.
Suggest you read that information because it shows the complete lack of honesty and integrety of the UK family / spouse policy in comparison.
I suggest we need to join / consider both these MRN sites and join them together and try to present our story and experiences to counter May and Green - we need to fight back!
Please read and lets have your reactions thought and comments - we are fighting for our freedom to have the family life we are entiltled to under ECHR and UK Law right!
Folks tonight I watched Channel 4 news John Snow and their presentation of the way victims of Torture are being treated by the UKBA in beach of I believe Rule 35 no less than 50 victims are being deteained in dentention in breach of the law and only one has been released.
Channel 4 showed victims wounds and scars that the program states are not being assessed correctly by UKBA and UKBA staff are accused of acting with callous indifference to the victims situations. One lady had been repeatedly raped and was in fear of being returned to her country of origin. I was personally totally outraged that this is again the UKBA run by May and Green which shows them in an even more callous light than our situation.
Friends we have our problems. But these people have greater problems and to me the UKBA seems to have completely lost any humanity. They are the same as nazi fascists concentration camp guards! This whole can of worms needs addressing and May & Green need to go.
I also understand the UKBA confines children in its detention centres what kind of country has the UK become?
We need to fight May and Green not only for ourselves but for victims of torture and confined children - we live in Britain and the Coalition Govt under PM Cameron is a complete disgrace!
Nice Post!!
Our Volunteer Lawyers are very well regarded Family Lawyers,with several years of experience in dealing with Divorce and Property Settlement matters. Citizen Legal Advice
Alright CLA. Whats your take on the minimum income threshold, and the policy changes in general? In my opinion, I really don t see how the minimum income threshold would hold up in court. This idea that "the vast majority" of the public support the new proposals is based on a small sample of people who actually bothered responding to the governments consultation in such a way. When I tell most people about my concerns, they always say something like "oh well you guys are married, so your fine" or "well whats the problem, your married." They have no idea how bad the situation is, and the they don't realise their rights are being violated. I think while those same people might see mass immigration as a problem, people getting married is just not their concern. They worry about EU immigration an economic migrants, which, lets be fair, are justified concerns (to a point, it doesn't excuse racism and bigotry by any means).
This threshold will stop most people from being able to bring their partners to the uk, to me, thats going to be something that many spouses of non EU nationals, and their families and friends, wont accept. People will talk to each other. Cameron and Co will lose more support(if they possibly even could at this point). I would be really surprised if a judge doesn't rule this unlawful and overturn the decision. Problem is, its going to get worse before it gets better, and I think the policies will actually need to come into effect and destroy some lives(probably mine as well) in the process. Guess were going to be martyred.
I really need to know if these new rules will apply to people already here on a spouse visa, waiting to apply for ILR, or if its just going to be for new applicants. I wish somebody could answer me, truthfully. Rumours are abound and they help nothing. My wife is a dedicated student with wonderful prospects for herself (possibly a PHD from Cambridge). She could get in on a funded PHD program for 3 years, and I can continue working as I am now, and there is no reason we should ever be burden on the state in that light. There need to be concessions. We certainly will not simply just "go away." I too have loved this country all my life, my family and friends are here, my home is HERE. I love England more than most English people "oh its S*£t here, I wish I could swap with you" they say.
No it isnt. The UK is a great nation, but its having some real issues here, and who is to blame? A handful of people who while probably having good intentions, are very misguided about their own people's wants and needs.
Things are going to get tough here guys. But calling people Fascists and nazis, and shouting and ripping your hair out and stressing isn't going to help you, or the situation. Its going to put strain on your heart and possibly make you an enemy of the UKBA. Be smart, be discreet, work for change through the right channels. Show that migrants of all countries have and deserve their dignity, and more and more, campaign to the public whenever you can to make them understand that while these policies actually seem like they could be helpful to the UK taxpayer, it is actually alienating them of their rights. When an EU citizen from outside the uk can bring whoever they want in, but a UK citizen cant, its time to understand that British rights are far from the current governments minds.
Sadly I also think that the 5 year probationary period is most certainly going to happen. Although it sucks and its unjustified and unfair, almost every other route to settlement has a 5 year probationary period. Arguing against it for spouses wouldn't hold out in court.
Folks todays London Evening Standard reports - '' Net immigration remains above 250,000''!
I suggest you go to the LES website read it for yourselves and reach you own conclusion.
Sorry my conclusion is May and Green will tighten the regulations not losen them.
The IPPR is quoted and so is Migration Watch UK. Green makes his comment.
The old saying ''expect the worse and hope for the best'' may be applicable and consider May and Greens past history. It isn't user friendly to our freedom to marry and live a family life!
ITS A SHAME! THIS ACT IS WICKEDNESS AND GREEDINESS WITHOUT CONSCIENCE AND HUMAN FEELINGS. THINK TWICE AND CHANGE IMMEDIATELY.
Sitting in my garden enjoying a nice mug of tea I was mulling over the latest media reports. Firstly Margaret Hodge Chair of the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee has appeared on TV and stated that the Coalition Govt has cut jobs at HMRC.
The Public Accounts Committee has stated that HMRC could have collected another £1.1Bn in tax had the Govt not cut those jobs!
Consider then that the T May attempts to deport Abu Qatada has cost the Govt / taxpayer nearly £1Million in legal fees.
Then the reports that the T May Green UKBA new rules on overseas students 'will cost universities £Bns. Some say £25BN BY 2015.
Then the Guardian Alan Travis article 20.05/12 that Govt Ministers are playing numbers games!
Consider D Green has stated he only wants the 'brightest' immigrants! Green doesn't clarify what he means by the 'brightest,.
However we do know that Russian bankers are being allowed into the UK and it is reported buying up £2million prpoerties and London is now being dubbed Moscow on Thames!
The LES reported the Russian banker who clains 'four of his colleagues' ordered the hit on him!
So the Govt is wasting £Bns on uncollected taxes, spent nearly a £1M on Abu Qatada, allows in Russian bankers with what seems to be criminal 'colleagues', which presumably D Green classifies as among his 'brightest' people YET denies the NON EU Spouses of British nationals entry into the UK using spurious unlawfull regulations affecting UK citizens!
This has all been done in the last two years under the Tory led Coalition Govt and their are more regulations in the pipeline to hit those with less than £25,700 income!
British democracy justice morality equity & freedoms are all being Trashed by Cameron & Co
General election, NOW!
Anonymous - reporting the facts is very British from where I come from.
I am born and bred London Brit who remembers WW2 and German bombers over London and then the V1s and V2s!
No one is tearing their hair out and stressing - unless its you.
But I know facism & nazis! Those that know don't forget OK.
What we do is present the reported facts OK. You want the facts but can't get them then.
Your not the only one. My MP misled me for 6 months. Try your own MP and find out.
We all know about Britain being a great nation. We lived thro the 40s & 50s onwards so you don't need to patronise us. It won't wash with true Brits.
It was our generation that survived the war and worked thro real austerity. We even remember ration books and food shortages. Thats why we are passionate about our freedoms today!
What we do is present the reported information so we can try to understand the thinking and motivation of May Green and Co.
When you have had more experience of the UKBA you will know they have No friends and there are people posting on this site who can verify that.
People who have been living with, and have experience of, the situation for 18 months or more.
The Home Office and UKBA don't inform and they don't explain the Govts policies!
Policies which you have stated you are equally in the dark about. The same as all of us OK.
So I suggest you take you questions to your MP. Write to May and Green and when they ignore you like they have done us for the last 18 months maybe you will understand a bit more!
Anonymous - my wife was here in the UK in 2008 on a Spouse visa.
My wife has a BA in Business Studies and worked for two International Companies overseas.
I worked overseas for International Oil Companies.
We have our own home in the UK and a Condo overseas.
My wife didn't work in the UK. We have adequate income for ourselves and we are completely self supporting.
My experience since 2010 is that any new regulations brought in will affect everyone immediately across the board regardless and they are not pre-announced.
You need to read the Matrix advise to Liberty UK of Sept 2010 that the Govt ignored completely.
Do your research on press reports of all the news and you may learn and understand whats happening you just may catch up with the rest of us.
@ Geronimo
My apologies sir, I can see how the way I worded my statement might seem like an attack on your concerns and frustrations. I have no such intention. I recognize that I probably am not up to date with everything that's going on, but trust me although you seem to have been alive longer than me, and have more experience in such matters than myself, I deeply share your frustrations with the way things are panning out for both my family life in the UK and all similar situations. I do truly hope you and your partner are reunited someday sooner than later, as I truly hope me and mine are not forced back into separation. We both have been through so much already and there aren't even any children in the picture yet. We are deeply afraid and want nothing more than to fight this and stand up for what we know is right.
Anonymous you are right to be afraid.
We are all afraid at what May and Green will do next. But we are all also very angry that they are not challenged in Parliament and that is because in the UK now 'immigration' bashing has become a norm.
I read in the Independent today that there has been a massive rise in racism in British schools!
That reflects attitudes of parents which children pick up in their homes.
Certian news papers have incited opposition against immigrants.
Yet Britain has only deported three out of 200 war criminals who find a safe haven in the UK!
Don Flynn MRN wrote a piece for the Guardian about certain news papers attitude towards immigrants.
Respectable self sufficient immigrants are being denied visas. But the UK has criminals torturers and terrorists allowed here and being housed and supported at taxpayer expense!
In the past 18 months I have scoured the news for information about what is happening and why! I have three arch lever files of hard copy to refer to which I use to check before I quote.
Understanding 'your enemy' is important.
What motivates the Govt is votes in the 2015 election in which the Tories wish to claim they reduced UK immigration. So the Tories motives are politically driven aiming at 2015.
This happens in times of economic stress and history shows that the same tactics were used in 1930s Germany by one Adolf Hitler!
The Breivik massacre in Norway was a right wing reaction and right wing groups are flourishing in Europe and the UK as well as the US. In France we have Le Penn but fortunately Hollande was elected. Some Tory MPs want to break with the ECHR why?
PM Cameron talks of a new British Bill of Rights! Why? Not for the UK peoples benefits!
PM Cameron wants to ignore the ECHR which Britains arch Conservative PM Winston Churchill promoted in Europe and of which there are now 47 signatories.
Churchill encouraged Sir David Maxwell Fyffe a Nuremberg prosecutor to write the ECHR in order to stop another WW2 type war in Europe and act as a bulwark against Stalins gulags.
If we are wise we learn from our mistakes we do not let history repeat itself generation to generation.
Britain should be promoting and leading in Human Rights. The Chief ECHR Judge is a Brit Sir Nicolas Bratza who is due to step down soon.
A new Brit from Matrix has been proposed as a new ECHR Judge.
Britain should lead in Human Rights and not be hypocritical by having unjust & unlawfull visa regulations imposed without Parliamentary scrutiny.
Britains PM should be setting an example - but he is not and that is the UKs tradgedy today!
Folks the Independent and the Guardian report that the Tories / T May concedes that their policies on reducing immigration are not on target. Its a blow for Mrs May apparently.
The downside for us can mean May could try to rush in her proposals on family income levels!
The good news is the nomination for the Judges job at the ECHR is Ben Emmerson QC a founder member of Matrix.
Matric Chambers being the advisors Rabinder Singh QC and Aileen McColgan who gave Liberty UK advice on the Pre Entry English Test in Sept 2010 then Liberty asked the Tory Govt for consultation but the Tory Govt ignored Liberty request!
So Ben Emmerson QC will know whats going on in the UK inregard to the Tory Govt ignoring ECHR and UK Law.
Does this help us - not a lot. To get to ECHR Strasbourg you have to go thro the full UK legal process in the first. Something most of us, certainly me, cannot afford!
But we live in hope. The hope being that the Cameron led Tory Govt is well and truly blotting its copy book as we say in the UK. In other words screwing up!
The latest coming out of the leveson report with Hunt telling Cameron he favours the NI bid for BSB. PM Cameron is looking sicker every day.
I am thinking it may affect Camerons policies i.e Europe- Leveson- Immigration etc.
Then today there's a report that thousands of police are accused of corruption but just 13 have been convicted! One more problem for T May.
PM Cameron just may tell T May to concentrate on the real issues and back off elsewhwere.
She could even decide to return D Green to the back benches he's not been a success!
I live in hope OK. Thats all we have unless one of you wins the lottery and has the cash to start a legal challenge to Mays intentions / actions for trashing our freedom & right to a family life!
Folks the Independent today reports on the 'Net immigration far higher than Cameron's target'.
Checking out the Guardian I came across a report by Amelia Hill dated 17 May which states the Home Office faces acute ' problem with staff morale' which says that staff in the Home Office are more concerned than others about minister's reluctance to listen to outside ideas or take well judged risks! The Home Office civil servants have less faith in their departments readiness to do its job!
On 16 May 2012 the Independent reported on Damien Green being asked by Keith Vaz in Parliament about the holdup Vaz encountered ay Stanstead airport and the length of queues.
It reports Damien Greens hands flapped and his face went into spasms as questions were put to him.
Julian Hupport Lib Dem MP observed that two years ago things were pretty good at border control and I can vouch for that. The question is asked what happened what changed?
The comment was then made '' two years ago? Isn't that when you got into Government?''
Please note the letter to the Times at the front of this blog. Note second from the bottom the name Habib Rahman CEO of Joint Council for Welfare of Immigrants - they have a web site thats well worth a visit where you can sign on for internet postings. Its worth while.
So I will have to divorce my wife and abandon my three boys to come back and live in my own country ,
Even contries with the worst human right records will not pass such a discusting , discriminating law , anyone must be able to bring his wife and kids what ever the circumstances , its his right and its his country , if our beneft system is a mess and is badly abused , why should poor Brits and love ones suffer the results .
In 5 days time my Chinese wife will have to leave England and return to China.
She will leave me (British from birth) and our 2 British children aged 3 and 5. I fear I will never earn the required 25k for her to return to the UK other than for visits, neither can I afford for us all to go and live in China.
I'm already heart-broken and in just a few days time our little boys hearts will be ripped to bits when they realize that for the first time in their young lives their mummy will not be kissing them goodnight.
What did we do wrong?
We fell in love.
And now our family is going to be destroyed by policy makers who have abused their position of power to take away my human rights and those of our 2 innocent helpless little boys.
Shame on you Cameron, shame on you.
it has been 13weeks now that i submit my E. U marriage application for my wife
uptill now i havent recieve acknowledgement letter or any form of letter
stating that my document are with the ukba .. what can i do , can some body help please
Net migration in UK is not high because of non EU nationals going to UK for studies, marriage, business and jobs - net migration is high only because of all the EU migrants from poland, bulgaria, italy, spain and other messed up european countries are flocking to UK for a better job. The non eu mugration now in UK is all highly qualified people who can add positively to the uk ecoomy but eu migration is mostly uneducated, low level job seekers and those are the ones putting too much pressure on the benefits system. Unfortunately non eu migrants are more visible in UK only because they look different...but the number of non eu nationals enterng uk each year is not that significant anyways. ...its all a dirty strategy by the curreent uk government to impress british voters by sayng they will restrict asians and blacks from enterng the uk now....mostly they are targetting south asians with these ridiculous rules. Anyway by passing this law of restricting low income brits to bring in non eu spouses - nothing will change...they are targettting the wrong groups.
Unless they scrap this racist system its the sworn duty of all expatriate British nationals to exercise their voting rights, visit their Embassy and vote these people well and truly out when the 2015 election comes around. They've betrayed us all at the most serious level there is.
Where does onboard diagnostics (OBD) fit in this plan? The EPA claims OBD systems on medium- to heavy-duty trucks are essential to ensure projected environmental benefits actually happen by alerting fleet operators to emissions system malfunctions and holding fleets accountable to repair the issues before they lead to greater harm to the trucks or environment.
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